Magnetic Authenticity Podcast with Jolynne Rydz
Welcome to the Magnetic Authenticity Podcast with Jolynne Rydz, where we elevate your leadership impact by embracing your true self. If you're ready to harness your strengths, level up your confidence and influence so you can make a bigger difference in this world, then you're in the right place.
Magnetic Authenticity Podcast with Jolynne Rydz
22: The Secrets to Making Change Stick - with Lana North
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Change doesn’t fail because the plan was weak; it fails because people didn’t believe, didn’t feel safe, or didn’t see themselves in the outcome. We sit down with communications strategist Lana North to explore how leaders can make transformation stick by swapping one-way announcements for human, two-way dialogue that creates ownership. From the first awkward moment of telling your team “something’s changing” to the steady work of involving them in shaping the path, Lana shares the practical moves that turn resistors into advocates and initiatives into embedded behaviours.
We dig into the mechanics of sustainable change (benefits realised long after the project team has packed up) and why authenticity is the quiet lever that makes messages land. Lana breaks down change fatigue with rare clarity, separating saturation (too much at once) from overwhelm (too much for too long), and explains how these forces collide to create a dead zone where nothing sticks. Her prescription is candid and actionable: map the full change load, create psychological safety for honest signals, and have the mature portfolio conversation that pauses, sequences, or stops work so people can succeed. Along the way, we talk about mindset before method, the power of a leader’s genuine voice, and a simple shift "communicate to involve, not to tell" that can transform engagement overnight.
If you’re leading through uncertainty and want change that lasts, this conversation offers clear next steps and the confidence to act.
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We're about to meet Lana North, a communications pro with over two decades of experience helping leaders navigate that messy middle of change. From major transformation programs in Europe and Australia to founding the communication exchange, Lana knows just how hard it can be to lead when you're still figuring it all out for yourself. Now she works with leadership teams and individuals to build practical, human-centered communication strategies that actually stick, helping leaders guide their people through uncertainty with more confidence and clarity. When she's not leading change, Lana's wrangling three kids, Labrador and the occasional fence jumping cow. Let's welcome Lana into the podcast. Welcome on in, Lana. So great to have you here. Thanks for having me, Jolene. Great to be here. We've been looking forward to this for a while, haven't we? Yeah, we have. It's been building for a bit. So I'd love for you to start off by telling us a little bit about the communication exchange and how that came to be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so the communication exchange is born from 20 years of my corporate communications experience working across a whole range of industries and seeing some of the same challenges come up again and again with the work I do with leaders across all levels of leadership. So what I've found is that people really struggle when they're leading their team through change and they struggle with the communication part of that and more so the team engagement element of that. And so I've started the communication exchange to really focus on helping professional leaders to drive sustainable change by mastering their communication and their engagement skills.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, amazing. And it's so needed right now. I'm you've you've mentioned sustainable change a couple of times. Can you unpack what that actually means?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. I think when we think about change, we often can go into down the path of thinking about, you know, one change and then another change and them being quite individual circumstances that happen within an organization or a workplace. When we change things around and think about sustainable change, it's really about thinking how do we make this change stick for the long term? So, what do we need to do so that in 12 months' time, two years' time, and beyond, we've actually realized the benefits of the change that we were setting out to make. And those changes have stuck. So we find ourselves down the path where we have progressed and not back to square one, where we're thinking, what went wrong and why are we staring down the barrel of the same problems that we were when we've done all this change work? And so for me, sustainable change is really about making sure that the change that we set out to achieve has really stuck, which means that the benefits have been delivered well into the future and not after a change program team has disappeared and moved on to the next thing.
SPEAKER_02:100%. And I I guess I am the person who helps the leaders in terms of their mindset and their performance and that ongoing after the change has come through, but also through the change. And I think what's really key here is that it's about the change really being embedded where people own it, right?
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. 100%. And you would see it in your work as well, as you said. Really making sure that people feel that it becomes a part of their day-to-day and that it's not a program or an initiative or something that happened that was uh one-off, and then we've just got to get through this and then we can get back to the way things were. That's absolutely not the way that we want to approach it. If we do that, then we end up running the risk of being back where we were, having spent a whole lot of money to end up back at square one. But it really is about seeing how leaders can lead themselves through the change as much as leading their team through the change. And you would see that a lot in your work as well. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's definitely about self and then others. And then also, I think from what I've seen, there's a lot of people that are resistant to change, what we'll call resistant. And I think when those changes keep coming and coming and coming, and people don't see the benefits, of course they're gonna be cynical, right? If this change is real this time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Change resistance is one of those things that we really do look at and really need to take a very critical lens over from the very beginning when we're working with, you know, either a team or with an individual leader to find out what's going on for their team. And change resistance, it's very easy to say that, you know, people, you know, they're just not on board, or I've told people and they're not coming along with it, and it's just not landing. I'm not sure why. And change resistance is actually innate to us as human beings. We like things the way they are, and we really don't want to move things because it means experiencing some kind of discomfort, having to change our mindset, having to adapt to the way things always were, and that can be quite challenging for people. And some of the things that feed into that are the volume of change that teams go through. And we know that, you know, at the moment, the only constants that people have in their workplaces and well, lives in general, is change. So, how do we do what we can to minimize that resistance or acknowledge it and bring people along with the change as we make it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I find when you can flip someone from the change resistor to the change champion, like that's phenomenal, isn't it? Magic.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That that's where the magic happens. And that's absolutely the gold star of what we what we aim for in any any change engagement when we can flip somebody from being a resistor of change through to an advocate for the change. And really a lot of work needs to go into that. But the core element of it is bringing people along for the journey so that in the end, people don't feel like change has been done to them, uh, and therefore they feel a victim of it or they feel uh that they weren't engaged at all. Rather, we want people to feel that change has been done with them, and so they actually had some kind of involvement in the change and being able to participate in it so they can help to create the outcomes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, 100%. I so agree with everything that you're saying. And so there's so much change going on in the world right now, and I think it's happening faster and faster and faster. So help us understand what is it. There's so many ways that we can lead change. What is it about communication specifically that helps people to lead and manage change well?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Great question. Really, the thing that helps people to lead and manage change well when it comes to communication is their authenticity. And we have leaders who are natural extroverts, leaders who are natural introverts, and they have very, very different styles, and helping them to have authenticity in the way that they communicate and feeling that they can really own the message and not only have a message to deliver, but a conversation to start with people, and making it two-way is where we really get a lot of traction in making change stick, having that two-way dialogue so that it's not just one way for people and people have an opportunity to ask their questions, to give their suggestions. That's really where we can make big change happen.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And how often have you seen when you come in and work with an organization, people broadcasting their communication rather than that true two-way communication?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it happens all the time. Yeah. And what's the impact? The impact is people who are usually resistant to change and feeling that level of disengagement. And I think, you know, coming back to that point of there is so much change happening in the world at large at the moment, that translates into workplaces. And workplaces are so noisy right now. There are so many competing priorities that are out there asking teams and asking leaders for their attention. And so when you throw another thing into the mix and we're just broadcasting, and we say, Yes, we did the comms check. That's not that's not going to not a check, not going to stick. We have to do much, much more than do a broadcast. One and done is not a way to communicate. Doing the comms is not communicating effectively. We really need to take the time from early in the process, even when we don't have all of the answers, to bring people along, explain the context, getting people to understand how it will affect them in their day-to-day, so that when it comes time to actually make the change action and ask people to change their behavior and what they're doing, they un already understand why. They already understand how it's going to impact them. And they feel less afraid of it because they've had a chance to input into what that looks like.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, 100%. And I'm so glad you brought that up because I I think a lot of what I see and why so I work in the transforming the individual, right? And that fear gets people to either camp down and they they fight flight flight or free.
SPEAKER_01:No, flight or flight. Flight or fright. There's three of them. Fight, flight, freeze. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I'm almost melting that and giving that the sense of safety that you'll be okay through this change. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:I think that that's the key word there. You've hit the nail on the head is safety. So creating a safe place for people to have their uncertainty, to be able to talk about it and put it on the table. Because you can only work through that when you know what it is that somebody's experiencing and what they're worried about. And if that is hidden and people are too afraid to talk about it, then you can't actually address it. So the problems that you know about are the ones you can do something about. If you don't know about them, then they will hide, you know, underneath everything that you're trying to do and start to pick away at it, but you won't even know that it's happening. And so that's where you end up in situations where you'll think, well, I I told people and they said yes, but then nothing happened. And so where did that disconnect come from? And often it comes from a place of not having a safe place to bring up any fears or uncertainty. And so creating that place of safety is really important from the outset.
SPEAKER_02:So we've talked about communication and change more broadly. I'd love to understand what you see leaders struggle with most when it comes to communication and engaging their teams.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a great question. And leaders initially struggle or have a bit of a challenge with telling their team about the change. So that first moment where they need to tell their team that something is going to change, and that can cause a lot of uncertainty. And that's where we really work very closely on equipping them with the story, that compelling story of why there's a need for change. And then that's closely followed by a fear from the leaders of I'm not sure how to involve my team in doing this. And I feel very vulnerable if I'm going to open up part of this change to my team or to other people, other stakeholders that I have within the organization, or sometimes outside, to lose control of what some part of the change might look like. And it often comes from the uncertainty themselves in not knowing all the answers. But when people step into that discomfort of not knowing and letting go of some of the control of the end result of what the change will look like to let their people in, that's when magic can happen. Because that's when you give people, you show them trust, that they have an opportunity to contribute and you acknowledge that they have expertise that is really valuable to you and that you want to seek that. And you also give them an opportunity to create part of the change. And when you do that, people suddenly feel like they have ownership of it. And we know that when people feel like they have owned something, then they will absolutely go in to defend it and to make sure that they do their part to see it succeed. So that part of finding some ownership somewhere in the change process is really, really important to the ultimate success of it. Because then the people who you are dependent on to implement when you get to that point have already been able to see how their input has shaped what that final outcome is.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that ownership is so, so key. I think it yeah, it helps helps take it from the it's being done to me to I I'm now part of this and I can actually come along willingly, right?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Yeah. That whole change isn't being done to me, change is being done with me. Critical. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Now you touched on vulnerability there, and I wanted to explore in terms of authenticity. So being that magnetic authenticity kind of leader where people are just drawn to you and drawn to be part of the change. What role do you think authenticity plays in leading change?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it is absolutely one of the key success factors for any change. And people know when you're not being yourself. And if they get a sense that you don't believe in the change that you're, you know, asking them to be part of, then there's no way that you will get your team to come along with you. So finding your own unique voice and communication style, whether it comes to change or any kind of leadership communication, is absolutely essential. Because when you do that, then people know when you're genuine, when you're being yourself, you feel much more authentic about it, and therefore other people believe you, and that's where the credibility comes from in what you're doing. I mean, I'm sure you would see it in your work all the time. We have a world that we tend to think is built for extroverts, and then when we have introverted leaders, they have a very different style. Now it can be really, really effective as long as we allow that to come out and for people to own their own genuine voice. And so that's part of the work that I do once we've created the uh change story with people, is to help them work through how they're going to share it in a way that feels genuine for them and has a great deal of impact so that people believe them, know that it's come from them, and therefore set the change up for success.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, amazing. And there's one thing that I see a lot of, which is uh change fatigue. And some people might not understand what that means necessarily. Could you tell us a little bit about that and and what do you do about it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's really, really critical to look at that. Change fatigue is is very real and it's it's rife at the moment. And change fatigue, uh there are a couple of things that really feed into change fatigue and what makes that up. So, on the one hand, you've got change saturation, and that's when there is a huge amount of change that's all hitting at the same time. And so people just not sure what they should be focusing on, where the priorities are, and that's quite confused for people, and they just, you know, don't know where to begin. And then on the other hand, you have change overwhelm, and that's where change has just been a constant for people all the time, and it's been ongoing for a long period of time. And so you'll have change that's been rolling out consistently for a long period of time, and then you have change saturation where you've got a whole load of different change initiatives that are all hitting at the same time. And when those things collide, that's where change fatigue really comes in. And we could call it something else, we could call it the dead zone for change because no change is happening, not well anyway, and not effectively, and not in a sustainable way when our teams are working in the change dead zone. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I love how you articulated that with the the different components of it. That's it's so true. And what I do often is I'm supporting the leader that's that's hitting that dead zone and helping them to be sustainable in who they are and their approach and their impact as well. Yeah. So what are some of the things that you see when you're working with leaders through this? One I think is maybe they've been in the pot so long that they they don't realize that that's where they are, that they're in the dead zone. They almost it's become the norm to deal with that amount of change. And there's almost a hesitancy to to pause the ship and say, well, actually, out of all of these changes, which is most critical? Are we continuing a change that maybe doesn't need to be continued anymore? So we can give people some breathing space and really recognizing how all of that's impacting not only themselves but their team as well from a well-being perspective. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's really, really critical. I was reminds me of a time where I was working in-house within a large logistics supply chain organization, and we knew that change fatigue, you know, was happening in different pockets of the business. And so we were sitting around the table with the executive team and just presented the huge gamut of change that was happening and the things that were happening within both the operational areas of the business and the corporate functions, and then all of the support functions that went along with it. And then we went to the point of looking at all the change that was impacting our customers as well. And when we put all of that on the table, it forced a bit of recalibration because before that, the conversation had been, oh, but the change program that I'm sponsoring is only affecting this little area. And well, the one that I'm sponsoring is only affecting this little area over here. But when you added them all up together and you could see where they were crossing over and the same teams that were having to deal with them all, it was very, very confronting. And all of a sudden, it became a conversation about that well-being and about values and what we as leaders have as a responsibility to look after our people and as well as looking after our people and their well-being through it, recognizing that we weren't going to achieve the commercial outcomes we were after because people were exhausted and it wasn't going to be done properly because we didn't have the bandwidth. And so then we entered the negotiation stage of what do we pause and what do we stop and what do we keep doing, what are dependencies? And that was, you know, very robust. And there were difficult conversations that had to be had from that, but we were able to pause things or say, that one is actually dependent on this one. So it needs to slow down so that we give both things a chance of success. And it does take a level of maturity to be able to come to that conversation and be prepared to give up some time or some scope for the greater outcome of looking after your people and making sure your change is going to be sustainable.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And maybe even that investment bias is in you've put all this energy, resourcing, and investment into a change, and then to abandon it takes a lot of courage to actually go nowhere worse off progressing than we are.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. There is a huge amount of honor in putting your hand up and saying this program that I'm heavily invested in and I really want to see go forward is actually the not the best thing for our organization at the moment. Huge amount of honour in being able to put your hand up and say, we need to pause or we need to stop or we need to pivot.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I think that's where it links into that authenticity and that confidence in self that no, this is the right thing for the greater good. Yep. Rather than trying to plow forward.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Absolutely. The the easy thing is to keep going because you said you were going to, rather than stopping having the conversation to say it's important, but it's not as important at the moment as some of the other things that are happening. Yeah. I love this conversation. We just need to make that the norm. That's all. We'll get there.
SPEAKER_02:So with the work that you do, Lana, I imagine you're working with both mindset and skillset. Can you tell us a little bit about how you you changed two of those things?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. So mindset is absolutely the the first place to begin, and you'd be familiar with this from your work as well, I'm sure, Jolene. Giving people the confidence in themselves and their own ability to communicate and to engage is one thing, and that's very much the skill set side of things. The mindset side of things really is the beginning of the work that we do because you can only lead your team and other people through change when you can lead yourself through change. And so there's a bit of work that needs to be done up front to really do a self-check-in and think how invested am I in the change program that we're rolling out, or the change that we're making, whatever it might be, and really ensuring that the person is absolutely set up for success in doing that with the way they think about the change as it's coming down the path, the way that they are prepared to lead themselves into uncertain territories as well, and have some honest conversations with themselves around what might be hard, what might be uncomfortable. Because only when they have been able to lean into that, then can we move on to how are we going to communicate this to other people? Because we know that from a communication effectiveness point of view, the things that make communication effective and really make it land for people, firstly, who you are. So some people will have that from the roles that they're in and the titles that they hold, but more than that, it's how believable they are to their people. The second part is what you say, and I work with people to work through the narrative and making sure it makes sense and all of that, but that's only a tiny part of what makes a communication really effective. Who you are and what you say are actually the least important in having people believe your message and come along with it. The most important part is how you deliver the communication, and this is the part that people will sometimes struggle with. And so that work around really knowing yourself and knowing your communication style and the way that is genuine for you is absolutely critical to do as an upfront piece. And that's linked to the mindset and leading yourself through change and being able to know yourself, know your communication style, because only then can you really intentionally set out to communicate to your team with impact in a way that's going to feel right for you, which will make your message land and be effective and have people really take it on board.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So it's the who you are, your your own mindset, and then the how you actually deliver the change, all of that in the world. Absolutely.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so have you ever come across someone who maybe was struggling with that bit or the the communication just wasn't landing and you've you've managed to turn that around?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I've worked in communication roles internally as business partner to people who are leading change for a very long time. And there was one person that really sticks out as being, you know, coming from a very good place of wanting to be the best communicator they could be, but they thought about it from a very analytical space of how do I get this across and what are the things that I have to do. And if I do these things, tick, tick, tick, then I will have got my message across and been a very effective communicator. And really, the way the conversation started was we're we're taking my team through these changes. Can you help me to put the comms together so that then I can stand up and really know that I haven't missed anything, that I've been very thorough and shared everything that I needed to do? And said, Well, I can help you with that, of course. But first we need to know what is it that's really important to your people, and what is it that's important for you to get across? And how do you feel really genuine in getting up and you know, talking to a group of people, which is not your comfort zone and is not something that you do on a daily basis. And they're a bit taken aback because they said, Well, I just want you to really give me the talking notes, and then I'll just stand up and you know, talk, talk to people. Said, Well, that's one way to approach it, but it's not a very effective way. And that made them really sit up and take notes. So, well, what but why? Like, because we've thought about it all, it all makes sense, we have a rational plan for how we're going to do it, and from an analytical point of view, it did make sense. All the all the pieces were there, but there was no connection in it. And so when we sat down and I said, Well, tell me what is it about your people and this team that they're going to be most worried about with the change? And we talked about that. And then tell me what else have they got going on for them in their you know, work world at the moment. Okay, tell me about that. And then tell me why is this particular change necessary now and how is it going to impact them? Okay, tell me about this. Oh, this is a lot more involved, Lana, than what I thought it was going to be. I thought that there were just some messages that I would just stand up and share. Well, again, that's one way of doing it. But if you really want people to take on board what it is that you're doing, you need to connect with them on a human level. And you can do that. You do that all the time. You're just more comfortable in an analytical sense. But you have a team that loves working for you. And so it's about tapping into that and why do they love working for you? What is it that you bring every day that you also then need to apply to telling them about this change that you're doing? And then he really sat back and thought about it and was able to identify his personal characteristics that he bring every every day when he walks into the team and how he shows up. And then when we were able to apply that to the messages and the change as we were, you know, talking about how do we share the message, that's when the magic started to happen. And then when he was able to stand up in front of people, it was a completely different conversation. In fact, it was actually a conversation rather than a presentation and inviting people to share the part that they were worried about or their thoughts about it. And so then that became really, really powerful.
SPEAKER_02:That's so cool. Because I've I've worked with a lot of people that have that more analytical mind over the people focused mind, and it does take time and effort to get them to realise that no, the the people, that connection side of them is what is like the cherry on top that brings people across the line, right? Yeah, just the just the process alone is not enough. You need both, and I love that you you're able to like that's kind of what I like I love doing is like unpacking that for people and getting them to go, oh wow, because you can apply it beyond change. Oh, absolutely to everything that they're doing as a leader, yeah. Exactly. Like both.
SPEAKER_00:Moments everywhere.
SPEAKER_02:So we've gone so many different ways, which I love. This is the kind of conversation that I love having. Could you tell us, Lana, for people listening, what's one small shift that they could make to really amp up their engagement as they're leading a change?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. So there's one mindset shift that people can take when they're looking to start leading their team through change, and that's around their mindset towards communication. And if people can look at communication as a way of involving people and not telling people, then that is the biggest shift that they can make. So have a mindset of communicate to involve, not to tell. Communicate to involve, not to tell. And then people will really have that feeling that change is being done with them and not to them. And that's a really powerful shift that you can make if there's one thing that you do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's almost and it's probably easier, right? So instead of going, I need to do this big presentation about change, just having a conversation with you people.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Let's just make it two-way. Let's have a chat about it. Yeah, there's a lot that has to go into it, but it's also not one and done. We don't communicate about the change once and think, well, I told everybody, why isn't anything happening? No, it's a process and it needs to be reiterated again, and we need to have different elements of the conversation so that we're really exploring it and giving people the chance to involve themselves in it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, amazing. And what is one thing that you wish Lana people knew about leading change?
SPEAKER_00:The thing about leading change that I wish people knew was that it's not about budget, it's not about scope, it's not about process. All those things are important and they make up part of it. But the thing that will make your change a success or not is people. Because you're dependent on people to make the change happen. And if people decide that they are out and they're not interested, then it doesn't matter how good your solution is, how on time your Gantt chart is, how you know well you're doing on delivering to budget, if people decide that they don't want to make the change and they resist it, then it won't happen. And so thinking about change and any program that you roll out as being about people is the one thing that can really help to set you up for success.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you're speaking my language. So you we've talked a lot today, Lana, about all of these amazing aspects to change. And where can people go to find out more if they'd like to connect with you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. Love to connect with people who are leading their team through change, thinking about change, designing change. And the best place to find me is LinkedIn. So Lana North on LinkedIn. Also look up the communicationexchange.com and reach out and I'd love to have a chat with you as well. So don't be shy. Let me know what it is that you're working on, any questions that you've got or or things that you're pondering about your communication, engagement, how to bring your team along for the ride, uh, let me know. I'm always up for a chat.
SPEAKER_02:That's how we met, right? We just had a chat. And here we are. So I'd love to take you through a swift seven questions just to get to know you a little bit better. Yep. So the first question is what are three words you would use to describe an ideal leader?
SPEAKER_00:Three words to describe a great leader. I think uh genuine, empathetic, and forward thinking.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because it's all about if you're leading someone, you're moving forward, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. That's right. Being able to have a clear idea of what that is and then articulate it for people, doing it in your genuine way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and with that people empathy connection. Yeah, what it's all about. So question two is uh fill in the blank. Magnetic authenticity is owning your own voice and being yourself. So question three is when you notice yourself trying to fit in, what's the first thing that you do?
SPEAKER_00:Ask yourself why. Yeah. I think if you're trying to fit in and it's not quite working, understanding why that is, whether it's because you're not able to, you know, feel yourself in that situation or where there's some other kind of dynamic that's going on, understanding that I think up front is really helpful. And then, you know, ultimately asking yourself whether it's a place that you want to fit in. And if so, then navigating your way through it. And if not, having the courage to walk away.
SPEAKER_02:That's such an empowered perspective to take. Yeah, I love it. Not easy. No, not easy. It sounds simple, but it's not easy.
SPEAKER_01:Takes decades of self-work.
SPEAKER_02:So, question four is what's the song that gets you really pumped? Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:I'm gonna say roar by Katie Perry. Oh, yes. And maybe that's because my kids have just got it on repeat at the moment as well, could be part of it. But that really gets me bumped. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We've got AFL footy themed songs on repeat at the moment. So I'm laying it on the web.
SPEAKER_02:Question five is what is the most daring thing you've ever done?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay. Well, there's a couple. I mean, in a single afternoon, skydiving. Went skydiving. So my boyfriend at the time, now husband, we decided we'll get that for each other for Christmas. And so we went tandem skydiving one afternoon, and it was the most terrifying, exhilarating, exciting, mind-blowing thing that I've ever done, and had it just an adrenaline rush that just kept coming back all afternoon, just up and down, up and down, up and down. That was absolutely incredible.
SPEAKER_02:How's that for like change going through your body of a lot?
SPEAKER_00:Am I gonna die? Yeah, exactly. Will I get through this? Okay, and then then and then you know oh good, the chute opened. Excellent. We're in a good place, and then oh now we've got to land. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. The closest thing I've done to that is the para paragliding of the cliff. Yeah, yeah. So way, way more tame. Well, but still. Oh, it's beautiful, it's peaceful. Yeah, it's really peaceful. Tell me about that. Yeah. You just the scariest part is so my we were in New Zealand when this happened, and my husband, he doesn't like cliffs, so he's like, You're crazy. You're literally gonna run off a cliff. And that was the worst bit. So you're you're hooked up to someone and you have to just you can't run slowly because then the chute won't lift up. So you have to run without you know hesitation towards this end of the cliff. But once the chute picks you up, it's so peaceful because it's quiet and you're just floating gently, and you can do some crazy turns and stuff, but it's still it was it was amazing. I'd definitely do it again. Incredible. All right, I might have to add that to the bucket list. Yeah, okay. Uh so question six is do you have a quote or a mantra that you live by?
SPEAKER_00:Oh I've got one at the moment, which is you can and you will. Oh, yeah. So if there's a will, there's a way. And if you really want to do something, you will find a way to do it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, amazing. And final question, number seven, is what's one small thing that brings you incredible joy?
SPEAKER_00:Uh just being home with the kids and the dog running around, seeing them happy, not fighting. So they're rare moments. But being there, looking out and seeing them running around and happy and actually realizing that that's what's important.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Just that connection and being carefree.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and they they have this lovely ability to just not care, right? They just do. Exactly. We've got to learn that as well. Uh relearn that exactly. I agree. So thank you so much for this conversation. It's been so insightful and thought-provoking. And I hope that the people watching out there have found something that they can really put into action straight away and step into that leader that they want to be as they're leading through change. Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00:It's been great to be here and have this conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Amazing. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:How good was that discussion? Let's look at some key takeaways. For me, it was sustainable change equals leadership and two-way communications. So broadcasting updates doesn't actually make change stick. Leaders need to be authentic, and that two-way dialogue early and often is so people can question and shape their own outcomes. And it shifts it from this done to me to done with me energy. The second thing I loved was that dead zone of change, the change fatigue and that change saturation when too many initiatives are happening all at once, and it collides with this whole overwhelm and this just unceasing waves of change. So the importance of creating psychological safety in the space and pausing to talk about this, the dependencies, asking what can stop so things can actually land. And the third thing was the mindset before method, communicating to involve, not to tell. And so using that self-leadership and authenticity throughout the whole process. So it's not about necessarily what you say, but how you invite people in and how you open that space for vulnerability and trust and that shared design so that your resistors actually turn to advocators. And I don't know about you, but that's actually one of the most exciting things I love about change is when you see someone who usually pushes back, leaning in and becoming your big biggest advocate. So if you'd like to work with Lana, be sure to reach out with her. And until next time, remember you were born for a reason. It's time to thrive.